201 | Celebrating 200 Episodes! Q&A Part 2: Personal Questions

In celebration of reaching 200 episodes, I’m answering more of your burning questions!

Last week was all about money. This week is all of your questions about me.

In this episode, we’re talking about personal things like my money journey and strategy, advice I would give my younger self, and my weird habits.

• • the strategy that moved the needle the most for us in paying off our debt
  • the biggest sacrifices we made on the journey
  • bank lending practices for mortgages
  • whether it’s possible for someone to get a big house and still pay off debt
  • what I would go back and tell myself at the beginning of our money journey
  • what I would do differently on our money journey
  • my best investment in myself
  • advice for my 18-year-old self
  • something I do that other people would think is weird
  • chocolate or fruity candy
  • whether I’ve had to fire a client
  • how my husband and I met
  • my favorite episode of the podcast

You’re listening to Wealthyesq. We are a community of lawyers who believe that true wealth is having control of our time. I’m Rho Thomas, and as a busy wife, mom, and former Biglaw associate, I know all too well the tension between the culture of the legal profession and pretty much everything else you want to do in life. That’s why each week, I’m bringing you the information and tools you need to improve your money mindset and manage your money to create true wealth. Because ultimately, it’s not about the money. It’s about the freedom and flexibility the money affords.

Hey, friend. Welcome back to the show. I hope you’re doing well and having an amazing day so far. Today we are getting into the second half of your questions. So last week, we talked all about your personal money questions, questions about money in general. So if you missed that one, go back to Episode 200 and listen to it. This week is all of your questions about my money situation, about investments that I’ve made, and about me personally so we will get into all of those questions right now.

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Nesha
Okay, next question.
“What money strategy did you make early on that moved the needle the most for you in paying down your debt?”

Rho
So, I think it’s two things here. The first one wasn’t intentional and that like we weren’t on this whole debt journey when we made this decision, but that was buying the house that we got. So, when we were house shopping the bank approved us for like $800,000 to buy a house. And we were like who’s gonna buy something for 800,000? Like, we don’t have that kind of money.

Like at the time I was making I think like 135-140. I was a second year associate. My husband was a resident. He was making maybe 50 and they were like, yeah, 800,000 and we were like uh no. So, we decided to get a loan for 200,000 and that kept our housing cost really, really, low. And then on top of that, once we were on this debt journey, we had been contributing the maximum amount that we could to our retirement accounts.

But we didn’t realize, because we started that early on, we didn’t realize that the amount of interest that we were getting on our loans, especially with my husband’s, he had like it was 350-$360,000 or something like that. So, the amount of interest that was accruing on that amount of debt was basically canceling out what we were putting in the retirement accounts.

And so, we decided to cut back how much we were saving for retirement, we still put in enough, because my husband’s job offered a match. So, we still put in enough where he got the match, which was like if he puts in a certain percentage then his employer matches. It was something like 3%. So, you know, we still put the 3% in for him, and then even though my firm didn’t offer a match, we put in 3% for me, as well.

But then all the rest of that money that we had been contributing to retirement we started putting toward our debt which helped us to pay it off faster, which meant that we were paying less in interest. So, I would say those two strategies, the you know house that we bought, not getting the biggest house that we could afford, and then cutting back on some of our retirement contributions helped us move the needle the most with paying down our debt.

Nesha
I think that’s really cool because if I had gotten a new job making six figures, I would have got the big house. But I think it’s really cool because like a lot of people do that and then yeah, it’s cool in the beginning, but then they end up needing you cause they’re like, what do I do now? All this money is going to my house and I have all this debt and can’t pay it or I don’t know how to dig myself out of this hole.

So, I thought it was really wise that you made that decision and fortunate that you started to learn about debt and money so early on that you were able to make that decision.

A question that came to my mind while you were answering was, so I know the strategy, but what was like the biggest sacrifice that you felt like you made?

Rho
I don’t think we made any big sacrifices. I think the sacrifices were more like smaller things. Right? So, things for example like the house, or getting, you know, new cars, or getting certain clothes or things like that. Like some of the stuff that some of our colleagues were doing we didn’t do early on because we wanted to use that money to get out of debt. So, if you can call that a sacrifice then we did those things.

Oh, I guess also in the same vein is like the trips that we took. Right? Like we could have taken nicer trips or gone overseas or you know stuff like that and we did more domestic trips.

Part of that too was like having kids and all the stuff that you need to travel with kids. So, it was easier to be able to go places that were closer, but then part of that, too, was thinking about do we wanna use this money to buy or to pay for you know a more expensive trip? Or do we wanna use this money to pay off you know this loan this month? And so, we we did make choices like that where we thought about the tradeoffs with our money of like we could buy this or we could make more progress here.

Nesha
Yeah that’s cool.

Rho
Something else that I was thinking about was when you were talking about how a lot of times people come out and they do buy the big house and all of that. I think that’s absolutely right and a big part of it is that banks basically are lying to people. Not that they’re intentionally trying to deceive people or anything like that, but I think the metrics that they use to determine how they’re gonna lend, it doesn’t take into account paying for this house and then also the other things that you would be paying for, and living and you know all of the other stuff that goes into it.

It’s basically like, does this payment fit into the structure that you have? Yes? Okay. This is the amount that you can afford. And so, we have to be prudent and thinking about, okay, if I had this payment can I also afford these other things that I wanna have in life? And for us it was like okay, if we had this payment we would just be sitting in our empty house because we didn’t have any money to buy furniture and we didn’t have any money to do anything.

So, that was how we made that decision.

Nesha
I know you said that personal finance is personal and I know for some people it’s the shopping the clothes, and the shoes that they’re like I can’t give up. For some people it’s going out, it’s the experience, it’s nice dinners, some people- trips, but what if somebody did want the big house and that was there their thing is there a way to get the big house and still be able to pay off the debts?

Rho
So, I think it depends on the person’s income and how big the payment on the big house is. Like one of the things that I teach my clients is to try to keep your housing cost to about 25% of your income because that gives you a lot of wiggle room to make progress on debt or to save or to do other things you wanna do, like travel or shop or whatever it is.

So, I think that it can work. I think when you get beyond the 25% especially when you have other debt, like a lot of times people have a car loan, have credit cards or stuff like that. It can get really hard to be able to make progress and pay any of it off because all of this money is tied up in this single bill.

So, I think if the big payment falls within about 25% of your take home pay then that’s okay. I know that sometimes people are like, ‘oh it’s worth it for me and I’ll sacrifice’ and I think, you know that’s fine if that’s what you wanna do. I don’t recommend it, but if you wanted to do maybe a little bit larger payment, but then you’re gonna cut back in some other areas, so, that you still have wiggle room then you know that is completely your prerogative. Because like you said personal finance is personal, but I found that keeping your payment to about 25% gives you that space that we’ve talked about a few times here between your income and your expenses where it’s not so, much of your income being tied up by this one thing.

Nesha
That makes a lot of sense. Okay. Next question.

“If you could go back and tell yourself one thing at the beginning of this journey, and only one thing, what would it be?”

Rho
I think I would tell myself that everything’s gonna be okay. Because when things first started, when we first added everything up, you know, all of that it just felt really overwhelming. There was, like we were not mindful of our finances at all I mean like we were mindful to the extent that we weren’t like spending everything and overdrafting and you know running up credit card debt or whatever. But like we weren’t paying attention to how much debt we had and how all the different pieces of our finances worked and so, the first time we did that, and I saw $678,000 of debt, and a negative $342,000 net worth like it felt like a gut punch which I know I’ve said before.

And so, there was a lot of worrying and you know thinking about how could we do this faster? How could we pay this off? Like what else could we cut? Looking at this, looking at that, like a lot of that like worry and stuff about how to get out of the situation faster.

And I think if I could go back and you know tell myself one thing, it’s like it’s all gonna be okay cause I think everything worked out the way that it was supposed to. And you know I did eventually get to that point where I wasn’t worrying. Like, you know, we had a plan. We just kind of lived life and it was fine. But there was a lot of time especially within that like first year or two where it was like, ‘oh I don’t know. We need to do this. We need to do that. Maybe we can cut here. Maybe you know like all of this worry.”
So, yeah, if I could tell myself that it would be okay, I think that would have helped.

Nesha
I really love that. I bet any of us can use that any aspect of our life—that advice.

In the same vein there’s another question that says, “if you could do one thing differently on your money journey what would it be?”

Rho
I don’t know that I would do anything differently on our money journey because I feel like everything happens for a reason. So, you know the fact that we had as much debt as we did and we had to figure out how to get out of it. Like all of that has led to the person that I am today. You know and it’s led to the work that I’m doing today. Like if I wasn’t in that position I wouldn’t have figured out how to do it and started wanting to teach other people how to do it, and you know started this business helping lawyers with their debt. Right. So, I don’t know that I would do anything differently on my money journey aside from you know what I just said about not worrying as much early on.

Nesha
Okay so, this question gets more into who you are.

It says, “What has been your best investment in yourself?”

Rho
My best investment in myself, hands down, has been investing in therapy, investing in coaching, all of that because those investments have helped me to think about things differently and to see other perspectives that maybe weren’t available to me before. And I think being able to think about things in a different way, being able to see things from a different perspective have allowed me to do things that I wouldn’t have done before.

Because, you know, there was a time where you know in my mind it was like this is the way that life is. This is just what it has to be and I couldn’t see anything other than that. But getting into therapy, getting into different coaching programs helped me to see that that one perspective that I had is just that. Right? It’s just one perspective and there are many other perspectives, many other ways to think about the situation.

And so, being able to think about things in different ways opened up new possibilities for me that weren’t available before. So, I would say therapy and coaching have been the best investments that I’ve made in myself.

Nesha
That’s great. Okay. So, next question.

“What advice would you give your younger 18 year old self?”

Rho
I would tell her not to worry so much about what other people think and it’s not so much that I was worried about like what peers and you know stuff like that. Like I wasn’t so much worried about what other people like my friend groups and stuff like that thought, but it was more like gaining the approval of like my parents my grandparents, my family. I worried about what they thought.

And not that that is bad necessarily, but like one thing that I learned especially in my journey of leaving the law, going into business for myself, like that disappointed some people in my family. And I heard this quote, this woman said something like if anybody’s gonna hate your life it shouldn’t be you.

Nesha
That’s good.

Rho
And it’s not that I hated my life… Right. It’s not that I hated my life, but it’s like I don’t need to live my life for these other people to be happy. I need to live my life for me to be happy. And so, that’s something that I think I would tell my 18 year old self because I think it’s something that I’m learning more now in my 30s, but it’s something that could have helped me even earlier on in life.

Nesha
That is a word on a Sunday. I’m just saying. I love that. Okay

“What’s something you do that other people would think is weird?” I know! No, I’m joking.

Rho
haha You probably do. So,

Nesha
Besides talking about money. I’m sorry.

Rho
I don’t think that’s weird, actually. No, so, if I go like in a bathroom and they have the shower curtain drawn…

Nesha
Ha! You gotta pull it back?

Rho
I pull it back to look behind it to like make sure there’s nobody behind it

Nesha
I love that. I do it too, especially at night I mean, you never know.

Rho
Right. It’s like I know that’s like, that’s weird, that’s random, like what? But, that’s what
I’ve done for as long as I can remember. Just like anybody back there? Like just check, just in case.

Nesha
Yeah. Or I’m the person that wants the toilet seat down when I flush the toilet.

Rho
Oh yeah. That’s not weird.

Nesha
It’s not weird, but some people think it’s weird.

Rho
Cause then you got all the toilet germs just flying up in the air.

Nesha
Haha! When I’m in a public restroom, it’s like that fighting to get out before it automatically flushes

Rho
Do people think that’s weird? I thought everybody did that.

Nesha
I think it’s a group of people and we’re included in that group of people who do that. But, then there’s some people are like, “why are you putting the toilet seat down?”

Rho
Yeah cause I don’t want all those toilet germs just flying up in the air with this like whirlpool.

Nesha
Oh my gosh. That’s hilarious. Okay! Moving off of toilet germs!

“Chocolate or fruit candy?”

Rho
Chocolate of course. So, first of all I like all candy. I am an equal opportunity candy eater, but if I had to choose one it would definitely be chocolate. I love chocolate so, much more than I love fruity candy. Fruity candy is like the, like oh the alternative, like the less desirable alternative. Like oh, there’s no chocolate, I guess I’ll go get this, you know these skittles or whatever. But chocolate hands down.

Nesha
I just have two words: Trolli worms. My people are out there.

Rho
Nobody’s out there. It’s just you.

Nesha
They’re out there.

Alright. “Have you ever had to fire a client when you were practicing attorney or as a coach? if so, why?”

Rho
So, definitely not when I was an attorney because I was an associate in a big firm and so, that was you know way above my pay grade, like what clients we kept or didn’t, but I have had to as a coach. And in those situations it was like, they were cancelling calls at the last minute, or not showing up to calls, or not doing the work that we talked about. Right?

So, like for example, part of the work that I do with my clients is look at their spending and help them to allocate their money in the way that best fits what they want, right, to be more intentional about the things that they want to spend on. And if you don’t ever bring your numbers, then we can’t do that work. So, it’s things like that where it seemed like coaching maybe wasn’t a priority, or wasn’t a good time for them in their lives. And so, you know, I was just like… they weren’t saying that to me, but their actions were. And so, I just went ahead and you know ended the coaching relationship because I thought that it would be better for them to come back at a time where it would be a better fit for their lives.

Nesha
Yeah that makes a lot of sense. Okay so, this is about your husband.

“How did you and your husband meet?”

Rho
Yeah so, we met technically on Facebook the summer before we started college. It was like right after Facebook started letting high school students on and so, I joined around that time and there were all of these, you know, groups for incoming students at our school. And so, like, we were in those groups and you connect with the other people like in your class and all that kind of stuff. And so, we technically first met on Facebook, but then we met on campus once we got there.

And we were in some of the same friend groups and saw each other a lot and all of that. And so, we started dating back then and the rest is history. We’ve been together coming up on 17 years now.

Nesha
Shout out to my twin! Okay, and this is the last question. Aww, sad.

“What’s your favorite episode of your podcast?“

Rho
My favorite episode of my podcast is the one where I talk about leaving the law. It’s episode 63 and I talk about all of the emotions around leaving and the back and forth that I had, and I just felt like I was really vulnerable in it. And I was really open about the decision and how I made the decision and all of that. And a lot of people have said that it’s been helpful for them as they are considering the same thing. So, that is my favorite episode of the podcast.

Nesha
Awesome. What do you miss most about being an attorney?

Rho
The people that I worked with. Like there are a lot of people who were really cool. Like we had a really collaborative team. So, yeah, I miss those people. There are a lot of people that I haven’t really talked to since I left. Like there, you know how when you are working together or you’re going to school together, like you’re in some way always showing up at the same place. Like you see each other all the time and so, like you keep up with each other in that way, but then like when you’re apart you don’t.

That’s what’s kind of happened with some of the people I worked with where I just haven’t talked to them because I haven’t seen them. And so, if I had to say one thing that I missed about practicing, I most miss the people that I worked with.

Nesha
Aww, that’s sweet. I’m glad you worked with such good people

Rho
Me too.

Nesha
Well, that concludes it man!

Rho
Well, thank you very much for standing in for the listeners. I really appreciate it. Hopefully, this has been entertaining for you all as you listen and instead of just hearing me read the questions and then read the or say my answer. So, yeah. Thank you for that.

Nesha
Of course, of course. And I’m glad I got to say hey to the audience. I listen to the podcast too. What up! haha

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All right. I hope you enjoy learning a little bit more about me. Thank you again for taking the time to submit your questions for supporting the show for 200 episodes 201 now. And thank you to my sister Nesha for standing in for you all, for reading out those questions that we could have a fun conversation and it wouldn’t feel boring just listening to me talk.

If you haven’t done so already please take a second, subscribe to the show, leave a review that helps the show get in front of more people so that it can grow so we can get this money information in the hands of more lawyers. And as always, I greatly appreciate your support.

Here’s to 200 episodes and I’m looking forward to 200 more. As we close out friend I pray that you take the information you learn here, apply it in your life and open up to the realization that wealth is available to you. As you do that consistently. Week after week. You’ll continue to take steps to regain control of your time, build wealth and live the life of freedom and choice you deserve. Talk to you later.